A Familiar Topic

[Heiliane]

[Article]A Familiar Topic

It has been a long time since I wrote an article on RP, many of you may remember some of my old ones, published under the alias of “The Journalist of Ayenee.â€

I had thought my days of writing articles on our pastime were over, but with the current state of things I have decided that I must take the metaphoric pen in hand once again. (I assure you, all the writing is actually done digitally.)

For my first article back I would like to address one of the oldest arguments known to RP. It will likely raise some objections, some heated discussion, some blood pressures and, worst of all, some bad reviews. (Horror! A journalist's nightmare!) However, I still think that it is required that I address it, so sit back, open a beer, and try not to become so worked up that you shoot the author.

This afternoon, I was witness to a common scene in Yahoo! Chat, which it still roam from time to time. A group of people had gotten together and taken it into their heads to bash one-another about post length.

Now, one of the people who joined in happened to be an old acquaintance of mine, and just happened to stick very firmly to one of my own RP beliefs that post length should not be determined for the entire RP, but you should indeed post short for posts that require little to no description, and long for posts that require more description.

I must say I was impressed, several of the verbal combatants took to this idea right away and agreed readily. However one, the leader of those arguing for short posts alone, argued that you should never post long, and actually said that people who had to post over “2k†(yes, I too rolled my eyes at the way he put that) words in fact, “sucked.†(Though I think he meant letters instead of words, since the discussion seemed to deal more with line limits than anything.)

The basis for this person's argument was that in all the undetermined time he had RPed, he had never needed over “2k†words to describe anything, a statement that caused me to bite my fingers so as not to jump in myself and say that he must not have very many creative or original ideas, then.

Now, one thing anybody who has role played with me knows is that I am very fond of creating things, be it worlds, races, technology, kingdoms, landscapes and just about anything I can get my deeply disturbed mind around.

Another thing those who have engaged in said action with me will know is that when I create these things they tend to be a great distance outside the human experience and all around just strange.

What this means is that in order to describe these things I create, I have to actually sit down and describe these things I create. By way of example, if I brought an elf NPC into a role play, I would need very little description to tell you what he looked like. You all know elves, thin, pointy ears, tend to look like girls no matter what the gender, and all I would need to describe him may be hair color, eye color, and clothing.

However, if I brought in a Rangshaden, or a Rungskadlain, or, more directly to the point, a Keqake, I imagine without me telling you more about them, I assume you'd be quite at a loss.

Now, many of you may wonder why that matters, do you really need a description of what the creature looks like in order to have a short interaction with it? Well, I remember a time when a similar gentleman to the one I referred to above decided that he indeed did not and skipped over the physical descriptions of a creature I'd created and simply posted his character walking up and shaking it's hand. This was a terribly unfortunate thing to do, being that the creature had no hands, and in fact very little at all in common with humans. (It ended up he tried to shake the creature's genitals and got a severe thrashing for the effort.)

Now yes, I can see that it would be quite entertaining to simply go around, not describing these creatures I create and have people's characters beaten when they try and shake their genitals, but I feel quite certain the novelty would wear off rather quickly.

I realize that was a fairly specific example, and not everybody creates creatures that strange, but I doubt there is one among us who has not had a special sword that simply describing as “long sword†would not suffice for. I also feel that a great many of the readers here will have played their characters in an environment that was exceedingly interesting, and was incapable of simply conforming to the vague description of “throne room,†or the like.

We have all had these moments, whether we heeded hem or not, where something came along in our role play that simply could not be properly fitted into a single paragraph of description, or, if they could, would leave no room for which our characters to act in. When we encounter these moments I say pull open word and don't stop typing until you have properly conveyed your message as to what it is the other characters are looking at.

Unlike what some of our friends would have you believe there is nothing wrong with telling people exactly what, where, or who they are interacting with, just so long as you don't continue to fall back on it in order to flesh out future posts. If the only thing your character is doing is turning their head and speaking, you don't need three paras to describe it.​

 

[Rhysis]

I, too, have engaged in this discussion from time to time when I took a stroll down memory lane and found myself in the chat rooms. I find myself torn between a need to stick to my roots, and my need to express my creativity.

For the sake of argument, there was a time, way back there somewhere, when the only long posts for standard rp were the entrances into a room. Anything else was considered a different style of rp known as story. But, also for the sake of argument, I have found that, when actually attempting some form of rp in the chat rooms, nobody is actually that old. Of course, when you ask them they say they've been around for 10 years, and yet none of them remember anything about well known past events...yeah, that adds to your credibility.

Anyway, getting on with the story everyone already knows, times change and eventually posting a paragraph for every post became the norm. I felt this a bit extreme, particularly in situations where I was playing alongside people who already knew all the fancy details about the world, the characters, and pretty much the entire plot. To paraphrase Cryz, we all knew Fang's eyes would glow red, we all knew SilverTears had a massive scar, and we all knew Temujin sucked. There was no need to continually express it in every post simply to achieve some fictional word minimum.

This holds true in rp with strangers as well. If all your character is doing is nodding in response to what someone has said, there is no need to go into a mile long discussion about what his or her thoughts on the subject are before they actually perform the act of nodding.

LONG STORY SHORT

You and your friend are right. Long is good when it needs to be long. Short is good when there's nothing else to say.

 

[The Silverlord]

I’m with you: post length should change depending on the post in question. Some things do naturally demand more description, background and explanation. But you do still have to watch, because not everyone is prepared to read large posts. Sometimes a quick “dumbing down” or editing of posts is required to encourage easier reading. Also, with some posts, you may still want to leave a little to the imagination.

Character introduction itself is a tricky one to negotiate. How far does one row the boat out? I would say the onus is really on the player to describe their character to a suitable, concise level; i.e. one that leaves little doubt for other interacting players. If your character has a disability or something outwith the norm—something that is immediately recognisable by other characters—it needs mentioning. Mentioning, but not to the extent that readers are wading through more than a sentence, e.g. explicit details of how and when a limb was severed while trying to to halt a falling guillotine. If another character asks your character how it was severed, then that’s perhaps the call for some more detail.

In my opinion, a good player is one who uses a good range of vocabulary and clever, simple sentences—ones that cannot be misinterpreted by other players. Such a player needs to be a strong editor, cut sentences and re-word where necessary, so their posts hold more quality, poignancy and purpose. Summarising is also good; repeating the same thing within posts in a different structure so points cannot be misread or easily ignored.

 

[SJ_the_Bartender]

I suppose I never get tired of arguing about this topic, even though I've made my opinion known on several occasions.

To start with, I'll say I agree that post length should not be determined off the bat for the entire RP session. Some things require more description than others.

However, thats where we begin to diverge in opinions. I tend to follow a 'less is more' philosophy when it comes to description. There are few things in the world of RP that annoy me more than someone making an intro post that not only details the physical description of a person in painstaking detail, but also spells out the character's history, favorite foods, birthplace, how they feel about the weather, which political party they voted for in the past 3 years, and whether they cried when their puppy died.

I think that an 'intro' that includes all that is too much. In my humble opinion, being the newbie that I am, I feel that an intro should give a brief physical description. Nothing more than you would take in at a quick glance of the person. Race, height, clothing style, hair color, skin tone, and any visible weapons is the base I start with. I add in any glaring oddities that would catch a persons eye right off the bat... such as 'he looks human except that his hands are actually silver in color'.

Now, in the example creature you gave, I could see adding more to that, since it wasn't a common race that everyone knows about. However, if I was in a room and you entered with that, I still don't think I'd want to see you describe every single detail in your first post. I'd rather you write the basics; just enough to give me the roughest outline... approximate size, color, body type... if its not humanoid, then describe its number of appendages, and whether they are tentacles or something else. But try to keep it concise. If your opening post takes up more than 1/3rd of the screen in a chat room, you are probably typing too much. Again, thats my opinion.

One of the reasons I feel this way is because of the medium. In a chat room, if 1 person walks in and writes a post that takes up the entire screen, I consider that rude. Its just poor RP etiquette to force other people's posts off the screen before others have had a chance to read them. If you find yourself about to post something to a chat room that is probably going to take up a lot of space, try to break it up by giving the obvious details first, and then as you continue to interact with people, give more and more description about the details of your character's apparance. You can still give as much detail as you like. Just break it up into smaller 'easy-to-digest' pieces.

In a message board RP, thats not such a problem. You aren't in danger of making anyone's posts scroll away so fast that its hard to go find and read them because the board doesn't update automatically. Message Board RPs are ideal for people who enjoy indulging in the more wordy posts in smaller quantity. Chat room RPs are more appropriate for smaller posts in greater quantity.

Also, I personally take offense to your suggestion that the person you were arguing with 'must not have very many creative or original ideas'. Just because someone doesn't want to waste time scrolling up to get past your post to see what was pushed off the page by it, then spend more time reading and trying to digest your post, and finally try to catch up with whatever new posts were made in that time does not make them uncreative. In fact, I would say that the ability to be creative and original has nothing to do with post length preferences.

One last thing I want to add before I close. A lot of people like to get 'creative' with their posts by describing their eyes as 'pools of misty aqua circumnavigate the occupants of the room' instead of saying them "he has blue eyes". Whenever I read something like that, I don't think to myself "Wow, this person is a really creative writer. They must be very intelligent to posses such a vast vocabulary.' Instead, I think to myself "This person is a giant ass, who is trying to make everyone think they are special. If this person was any sort of decent human being, they would stop trying to impress me with their exotic words.'

A lot of times, I wonder if they realize that most writers who are successful write in a fashion that normal people can read and understand quickly and easily. They don't force people to go get a dictionary or a thesaurus. Talented writers are considered talented for their ability to convey a story. You cannot do that when people either can't understand your writing, or else they just don't care to take the time and effort to decipher whatever drivel is being posted.

 

[Heiliane]

SJ, I don't disagree with you on many of your principals, but I do believe you are reading far too much into my article that was never said.

I never said I tend to take up the entire chat screen with my posts, I tend to do at most three or four for a single character when length is required. (Sometimes more when I'm playing multiple characters or have a few interesting NPCs, but that's only in conference with people I know so doesn't pertain to this discussion.)

I also did not say he was unoriginal because he scorned long posts, I said he was unoriginal because he'd never needed more than two-thousand characters (possibly words, I still hold that he probably meant characters though) to describe anything.

In my thinking, this either implies that everything he ever described was fairly common place and required little description, or that when he did describe the more complex things, he merely listed the description, “It's teeth were yellow, it's fur was black, it's feet were large, it's hands were long, etc.†And let's face it, this is just as bad for getting your point across as posting too much because nobody wants to read something like that, third quarter profit reports for a national soda cracker company are more interesting. This isn't exactly unoriginal, but if he lacked the creativity to describe it in an interesting way, chances are he hadn't actually created it's appearance all on his own anyway.

As I said, I do agree with much of what you said, I just don't believe you quite understood me properly.

 

[Prolific RP]

Too long, didn't read sorry. Who Multi-para posts these days?!?
I kid, well partially... I really didn't read it all but I skimmed and read selections entirely out of context. Like the part about some guy shaking your genitals? That was great! Whatever it is your post is supporting, sign me up!




On a more serious note, multi-para or get out of my IM window!



Sincerely,
Your Prolific Slut
(Can I say slut on this forum?)

 

[Tifferzzz]

~Holds up her hands at the entire thread and replies~ "Woah. Hold it. First of all, wtf@ the newest member? We have a prolific slut for the boards? New member - if you're going to reply in a thread, be sure to read the entire thread. That will just save you in the future. Trust me.

Now that I've set out that first statement, let me turn to the initial topic. I, as many others are on this board, am an old-time rper from chat. Yeah, I was there when the auction was first established. Everyone remembers that. If you were around back then, it was a common practice to enter a room and be slammed by various paragraph posts and one-liner posts (in addition to the porn solicitations.) Everything was in that auction room. There were good rpers, bad, new and old alike. It wasn't as much of the highly spammed multi-para intros that annoyed me, but when someone entered and went:

"Walks into the room. (See profile for pic)."

That annoyed the hell out of me. If you're going to role play then role play. I'm not going to sit there and click on a picture that your character is supposed to look like. If you don't have the talent to describe it, then in my opinion you are lazy and aren't worth spending the time communicating with.

That being said...when it comes to super long posts, many of you know I am the queen of them. I am trying to get out of the habit of describing every f'ing thing at every turn. When I first started role playing and for the five years that chat seemed to run (worthwhile), the more you could post and describe, the more that people wanted to actually role play with you.

Gay, I know.

I think it takes an equal balance at each end of the spectrum. This is why I look up to C.S.Lewis. He can describe an entire scene in two pages and with absolutely minimal words, but you clearly see everything. I think that the goal for everyone (especially myself) is quality. Quality meaning that you have become such a skilled player that when you post, it takes very little, but there aren't any questions or situations left open. Detailed role play in a small posted manner. (If that makes sense.) Rest assured I am better than I used to be, but I'm also working on improving my posting capabilities.

Heiliane I would agree and disagree with both you and your opposing patron in the chat room. I think it's lame to have an actual '2 k' limit on a post. Some do need more description than that depending on what's occurring, but to post various posts for simply a description (depending on the description) can also be overwhelming. Most people don't want to read a book when they role play real-time. Most just want to see: "Enters a room, looks around and takes a seat next to the Elf." Notice that I said 'real-time role players.' I love reading books and writing books, so it doesn't bother me personally, but other people can be general asses about it. Regardless, if someone's bitching about someone that they're role playing with (their length of posts) then that person should be shot for even trying to continue the role play. They should politely reply that they're not interested in the lengthy style of role play and move on.

In Summary, I would like to notate that the above situation will never happen in chat because everyone who is still role playing are a bunch of un-talented asses. The decay after all of us left. I would suggest that you stay here and role play with skilled players and stay out of the decrepit corpse of the formerly known 'Yahoo Chat.'

 

[Heiliane]

Actually, Tiff, she was making a joke, attempting to lighten the mood and that. She actually did read all the post and was simply making fun of the kind of people who don't. Hence why she said "On a more serious note" down at the bottom.

But there actually still are decent role players that hang around in chat, most of them only RP in conference with people they know, but they do exist. I know this because I still see a few of my old friends wandering the rooms from time to time. Don't ask why we still do this, perhaps out of boredom, perhaps out of habit, perhaps we're just gluttons for punishment and all this could be cured by a sexy woman (or man) in leather with a flogger. In any case we do still exist! I've got pictures and everything. >.>

 

[Mithrandirxx]

Prolific, you can say slut if you are either in an RP, refering to yourself, or refering to someone in the hate thread as long as you do not mention names, flaming bad humerous self-proclaimed titles entertaining.

As for the Article, I believe in the flexing post, when you have a lot to say or describe do so, but when you need only say "Holy Shit Batman " say it and be done with it. Are there times where Multi-para postings are a waste of time yes. I have been in Rps with five or six people and because we were so focused on making massive posts each person got one post out in two hours. So I became an advocate of posting what is nessacery and when you have the time and inclination cover the fine details.

 

[SJ_the_Bartender]

I never said I tend to take up the entire chat screen with my posts, I tend to do at most three or four for a single character when length is required. (Sometimes more when I'm playing multiple characters or have a few interesting NPCs, but that's only in conference with people I know so doesn't pertain to this discussion.)

I also did not say he was unoriginal because he scorned long posts, I said he was unoriginal because he'd never needed more than two-thousand characters (possibly words, I still hold that he probably meant characters though) to describe anything.

@Para 1 - I never said I was talking directly about you either, Heiliane. My statements were broadstroke opinions. Not directed at any single person. Unless you fit the description, assume it isn't aimed at you personally.

@Para 2 - You are correct that I misunderstood your intentions there. I retract my statements regarding that particular comment.

@Tiff - I like that term you used. 'Real-Time RPer' I think I would fit into that category when I go into a chat-room for RP. I would actually prefer faster action from shorter, less descriptive posts, that provide just enough information for me to get an accurate visual, rather than waiting for an extended period of time for a few paragraphs that give me a lot of information which I don't need in order to interact with your character. I prefer fast and efficient, over flowery and in-depth.

@anyone? - To get back on the topic, while I personally don't agree with setting a post limit for the duration of your RP, I do think its not a terrible idea to let someone you are about to engage in RP with know your personal preferences. That way, you both can come to an agreement about which style you both can live with, and both enjoy the RP, rather than letting it deteriorate into an argument over post length. No opinion on the subject, my own, or anyone else's, is considered to be absolutely correct at all times. So if you come to an agreement about which style to use before you join an RP, you can avoid the entire argument, or you can go find people to RP with who share your opinions. At least thats how I feel about it. I'm still a newbie though, so feel free to dismiss my ramblings at your leisure.

 

[Raharanor]

The mantra thats often followed in my case in regards to roleplaying has been to create posts that are clearly relevant to the scene at hand and not overdoing the detail whilst doing this. However, to expand upon the above, the over-emphasis by some on quality of writing style within an rp equating to the length of the post depends on the amount of written description needed within any given roleplay. As it has probably been mentioned, if one was to make something out of " The armoured man sprang through the dark opening" and make it into " The man of glinting armour and dark flashing eyes with a silver helmet and halbered with golden lining sprang through the gaping hole of blackness which protruded in front of him" it would supposedly be fine as its describing the events in extensive detail and is well and truly relevant to the plot/storyline. In truth, re-wording from "The armoured man sprang through the dark opening" to " The man attirred in glinting armour and halbered sprang through the gaping hole before him" as it isn't going to a ridiculous amounts of detail to describe one particular action. It is really the content written that counts and the quality of the writing/grammar to the extent that its not unnecessarily long and long-winded unless it is neccessary for this detail to be present for the storyline's advancement.

Furthermore, my roleplay posts tend to be average in length and at times throughout the Shadows of the Last War D&D roleplay I attempt to expand my character's view of events and the actions taken by the character in question. Posts within combat in the above mentioned roleplay usually don't require a very large description as it mainly involves stating your action and perhaps a very brief description of events from your character's angle and you're off and away.

Additionally, during my days within the elite roleplaying organisation of H.A.R.P (Hallowed Association of Roleplayers) which was associated with Middle-earth and Lord of the Rings Online and while being a counsellor member in this group there was a strong emphasis on quality of grammar and posts as well as a three paragraph minimum in posts and a solid knowledge of the lore of Middle-earth so that one could roleplay effectively in Middle-earth roleplay. The association in itself was viewed by some to be very elitist in the sense that we were supposedly shutting out those who roleplayed for fun and wished to roleplay their favourite characters from Lord of the Rings and Middle-earth. In fact, the overall aim of H.A.R.P, as well as those aims mentioned above, was to improve the writing of those roleplaying within Middle-earth, having those who wished to join the elite group of roleplayers to strive to achieve their utmost best in their writing skills and quality and attempting to reduce the amount of spammy one or two-liner spam or chat posts within a rp or having someone roleplay Aragorn or Frodo or some such character. The group itself was formed in February 2005, moved from the Lord of the Rings Online forums due the game developers' disapproval of our high standards and moved to fansite www.lotrosource.com and then disbanded in November 2006 after flailing activity. The lessons that had been learnt from H.A.R.P's tenets and guidelines were read and understood and generally led to somewhat better roleplay that had been present before the organisation's demise.

The two extremes that we are generally stuck in regards to roleplay is the post length and the quality of the post. H.A.R.P had a high emphasis on posting at least three paragraphs per post in a well-planned and laidout roleplay, but from people such as myself we have an emphasis on not going overboard with post length and simply posting the description of events from the character's perspective and expanding upon it if necessary. I believe SJ outlined something similar or identical in his previous posts. How are we to navigate through these extremes in written roleplay?

The quality of the post should be present in virtually all cases, but when it comes to post length it should count only when its needed to further lay out the scene for others to base their characters and posts on.

As for the quality of roleplay, I can only say that comparing the quality of a roleplay in Yahoo Chat and NewAyenee.org can be seen as being all relative, but in this case the difference in quality is indisputable. I'd much rather continue my roleplaying ventures here than in some spammy chat rooms.

Thats about all from me...a bit lengthy, but felt like giving my thoughts en masse for once

 

[Tifferzzz]

@anyone? - To get back on the topic, while I personally don't agree with setting a post limit for the duration of your RP, I do think its not a terrible idea to let someone you are about to engage in RP with know your personal preferences. That way, you both can come to an agreement about which style you both can live with, and both enjoy the RP, rather than letting it deteriorate into an argument over post length. No opinion on the subject, my own, or anyone else's, is considered to be absolutely correct at all times. So if you come to an agreement about which style to use before you join an RP, you can avoid the entire argument, or you can go find people to RP with who share your opinions.

YES! That should be posted at every entrance of every room that exists and/or existed in chat! Holy crap. That would have saved so much damn headache and arguing between everyone. *Gives standing ovation for that statement*

 

[Heiliane]

@Para 1 - I never said I was talking directly about you either, Heiliane. My statements were broadstroke opinions. Not directed at any single person. Unless you fit the description, assume it isn't aimed at you personally.

Ah, I apologize, this time it was I who misunderstood. Though I agree with speaking to potential partners about your own personal preference before hand, definitely a good way to do things.

Raharanor- This group of yours sounds silly. To claim your intent is to improve the quality of posts, then assign a three paragraph minimum is ridiculous. If all your character is doing is saying "Wassup my nigga? Wha's chillin with my peeps in Gondor!?" (Though I suppose in Middle Earth it'd really be more like "Hail, my nigger, what word of my peeps in Gondor?" But you get the idea.) Then putting it in the form of three paragraphs is just going to make it a lot of filler.

I also must comment on one of he first things you said, that being that what really counted in Role Play was the content. I would have to disagree with this, because content is only half of it, the way and the language used counts for about fifty percent on top of that. (Though, that leaves nothing for spelling and grammar, so we'll divide it into thirds for the moment, and leave descriptiveness out for now, it can be thrown back into a percentage later.)

As I said earlier, I could easily shorten many of my posts by simply changing the language, but that's boring, you have to make your post interesting to read as well because if you don't capture the attention of those around you then they won't interact with you, and you're not really role playing, are you? So, as I said, the language and the way your posts are written are at least as important as the content, possibly more, seeing that if you make a post interesting to read, your content can be fairly mundane and people will still take notice.

Anyway, I'm sick and have lost most of my train of thought by now, so I'll leave it at that, but mull it over.

(By the way, Prolific referring to herself as “Your Prolific Slut†is a blatant lie, she's never once come up yo me and said “I'm bored, wanna screw?†)

 

[SJ_the_Bartender]

...what really counted in Role Play was the content. I would have to disagree with this, because content is only half of it, the way and the language used counts for about fifty percent on top of that.
...

As I said earlier, I could easily shorten many of my posts by simply changing the language, but that's boring, you have to make your post interesting to read as well because if you don't capture the attention of those around you then they won't interact with you, and you're not really role playing, are you? So, as I said, the language and the way your posts are written are at least as important as the content, possibly more, seeing that if you make a post interesting to read, your content can be fairly mundane and people will still take notice.

Content absolutely trumps use of language, from my perspective. However, readability is of course, essential. If I can't understand what you wrote, I will immediately find someone else who I can understand to role play with. But beyond that, I'd rather find someone who has interesting content, and describes it in a bland way rather than someone who can spend 50 pages describing the intricate detail of how they drink a mug of ale. Give me the guy who can do something interesting, engaging, and fun in a single sentence any day.

The problem here is that while you may not find those shorter, mundane, 'boring' posts to be uninteresting, others may enjoy them, and even prefer them over the big-word, flowery, overly-descriptive posts. Its a difference in preference. I am encouraged to know that you are at least against the excessive description. We just have different places where we draw that line.

 

[Raharanor]

Raharanor- This group of yours sounds silly. To claim your intent is to improve the quality of posts, then assign a three paragraph minimum is ridiculous. If all your character is doing is saying "Wassup my nigga? Wha's chillin with my peeps in Gondor!?" (Though I suppose in Middle Earth it'd really be more like "Hail, my nigger, what word of my peeps in Gondor?" But you get the idea.) Then putting it in the form of three paragraphs is just going to make it a lot of filler.

The three paragraph minimum counted for those members of highest rank I believe, and was not a necessity for those who were not of the higher level ranks (ranks ranged from acolyte, scribe, minstrel, bard and the highest being loremaster) as it was assumed those of the group who had, by consensus of the council, had earned their assignment of a higher rank due to their hard work and efforts in enriching their roleplaying posts would have the necessary skills in which to enrich their posts with much detail about the geographical setting and events happening around them. Of course, we were criticised for our seeming eliteness but we were also praised by many for our tenets also. The three paragraphs minimum for the higher ranks wasn't the only defining factor in H.A.R.P membership, as it was the content and knowledge of the lore of Middle-earth displayed within one's posts within a roleplay that mattered most and also self-improvement. It was designed to launch others as well as ourselves on the path to self-improvement in skill in writing and roleplaying, and we held onto that ideal and the message got through.

This is not say that we were dictating how people should roleplay, but were merely offering a choice on whether to share knowledge and skills of roleplay within Middle-earth and other places to benefit others to become better roleplayers themselves or to go on their way as per usual if they're not comfortable with the group.

I did not come up with the idea for this organisation and nor did I lead it, but I was one of those who held interest in the ideals expressed by one Morthoron from day one of H.A.R.P's inception. I for one are proud to have been part of H.A.R.P and the knowledge and skills that I took from the experience within the organisation has been beneficial in not only my roleplaying in Middle-earth but in other places such as .Org and until recently .Com.

 

[Heiliane]

SJ, once again you misread me, I already said descriptiveness was not what I was talking about, I mean language, the way you word your posts, the way they're strung together. “He walked into the room, he sat down, he ordered a mug of ale, he drank it slowly.†Or “Arthur walked into the room, finding a chair in which to seat himself. He then ordered a mug of ale which he sipped, slowly.†They both contain the same amount of description and are roughly the same length, but which is more pleasing to read? The first is an assault to the mind, it pains me to read it, much less to have written it, and I'm sure many people here will agree.

If all you focus on is content, you throw away the ability to make your words pleasing to read, it doesn't matter if your character's slaying the Black Beast of Arrgg if you write it as “He drew his sword, he swung it at the beast's eye, he danced out of the way of a strike.†Once again we get back to me preferring the profit reports from the cracker company.


Raharanor, that's exactly what we've been talking about, your environment only needs describing once, the actions of the people around you only need describing once, at the point when you've done that and your character's simply turning his head and speaking, three paragraphs is a bit much no matter how long you've been role playing, or how good you are at it, because it's still going to be a lot of filler.

Isn't that right, Ghetto Aragorn?

[Pimp Daddy Strider]: Sure you are right, my home lad, that is bandit.

 

[SJ_the_Bartender]

I know what you are saying. I still don't agree that its more important than content. I don't care how elegant you put it. I'd much rather read about the slaying of the beasty than the drinking of the ale. Now, once you've got good content, then I'll agree that I might prefer more elegant descriptions over the bland statements, but thats still a secondary concern to me.

 

[Heiliane]

I personally just can't understand that. If I came into a chat room or onto a forum and saw one guy writing in the way I exhibited first but doing something like fighting the Black Beast of Arrgh, and another guy performing somewhat domestic actions but actually stitching the sentences together with some semblance of literary intellect, I'd blow off the guy battling the Black Beast of Arrgh and go right for the guy getting drunk. At the very least you can enjoy the back and fourth interaction between your character, and probably pull him into more exciting events. But but the guy who's apparently forgotten his character's name and begins the description of every single action with the same pronoun is probably going to continue to do that throughout the RP.

 

[Lowthor]

I'm with SJ on this one, but then I'm an RP minimalist. I don't want to hear what your character is thinking, unless I'm playing a telepath, but I don't have any of them. Short and to the point, describe what the others can see. Don't describe every item in your coat of magically deep pockets, just keep a list somewhere so they don't claim you're talking out of your arse when you whip out the 7.62mm general electric minigun.

 

[Heiliane]

Lowthor, bro, sorry but we passed descriptiveness already. It's been rectified and decided that we all agree to a certain measure.

But I've got to say, I definitely disagree with you about telling people about what your character is thinking. Giving the room an idea of his thoughts will allow them to better see his expression, and body language.

The English language (as well as Spanish and French and probably just about all others, but I can only personally speak for those three) lacks the necessary words to properly describe somebody's expression and body language. This is because both of these rely on such subtle changes, and have such a wide variety of things that they can convey, that the only way to really give somebody an idea of what your character's expression and body language are telling them is to give them an idea of what said character is thinking.

(Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, and because I didn't notice earlier, happy birthday, Raharanor.)