Trainscanflytoo

Well-Known Member
Since I started RPing, I've always noticed a sort of divide between people who would rather stick to Roleplaying whatever comes to mind and those who prefer to tell a long term story and develop a world. Of course, this is because Roleplaying is NOT a one-size-fits-all medium in the slightest. People write in different styles and on different topics with different goals and focuses. Some prefer to see how strong they can render their character while others wish to catalog the world for others to come and explore.

From what I've seen, often a conflict of interest may arise from this. Now, I haven't seen much on Ayenee, and I've only been here for a couple days, so this is merely a suggestion for everybody to chew on:

Split Ayenee down the middle.

Like a timeline split between two universes, take Ayenee and create two subforums out of it:

Classic Ayenee (Freeform, NonCanon)
Campaign Ayenee (Canon, Story-based)​

The idea would be to create something cohesive and structured on one side while the other can play Ayenee in the style of the original site - and there is no reason why somebody from the Classic RP cannot come to the Campaign and vice-versa.

Back on Star Army, the last site I joined, there was a subforum dedicated entirely to noncanon RP with the characters people made just so they could enjoy themselves free of worry of what lasting consequences may occur throughout the rest of the SARP Universe if it were in the canon forums, but because it was tucked away, it was overshadowed by its Campaign-based sibling (especially since the campaign is the primary focus of Star Army).

So, give me your thoughts. Think this could work? In my honest opinion, if we try to blend the two via use of "Soft Canon" it could create some issues at the end of the day.

There will be downsides. For example, the Canon RP will require aspects such as character approval and conformity to what's canon, and the division between two subforums may increase the amount of moderation necessary, but it could be a solution to worries of the canon taking over the old Ayenee or overpowered characters destroying everything in their path for those who want to build a story.
 
One thing I want to really highlight is that we should avoid getting people hyped on the idea of a "campaign". Precisely because, at the moment, Ayenee lacks players beyond Kaiyo and has little resources to form a cohesive "canon" setting. I like the idea, personally, of something more story-driven (akin to SARP's early days and the idea behind things like the Mishhu) but have to be skeptical that we can create anything with what little we have that would be truly driving. The sheer broadness allows good stories on the fly, but there's simply no consistency/wiki-prep to really need the difference QUITE yet.

Edit: I will say, however, that @Wes might be wise to actually transfer how SARP's board rules work to here. I think SARP's view of non, soft, and hard canon are very good for establishing how things work when they're treated as they're described. It's helped people (like myself) start in Open RP... but eventually transition and get things canonized afterward.
 
This is more of something to be done when all of that is prepared. i just used the term as a placeholder to give a general idea that one would be driven via some kind of story. It's best to remain skeptical, but it would be beneficial when things start getting set in stone to make sure that the sandcastle we're building doesn't get kicked down per se.
 
Well, the wiki could have a canon and non-canon section, perhaps. Or multiple canons.

I don't think we really want to try to put thinks like Saiyans on the wiki, since they're documented on things like the DBZ wiki and also I don't want to get lawyers messaging me over stuff members copied onto the wiki.
 
Well, the wiki could have a canon and non-canon section, perhaps. Or multiple canons.

I don't think we really want to try to put thinks like Saiyans on the wiki, since they're documented on things like the DBZ wiki and also I don't want to get lawyers messaging me over stuff members copied onto the wiki.
This is part of why I highlighted in our discussion with @Mithrandirxx that it's ideal to get things that are from other settings (like Saiyans) and work them into things that fit within the setting. How we do it is in the air (Saiyans could be based on some sort of inner spirit school of magic that bolsters one's fighting ability), but we can likely find ways and tools to prevent any copyright issue things from becoming part of the canon setting. Non-canon things don't really get wikified on SARP, so I imagine that'd be how we solve the issue of keeping law-breaking issues off the wiki.
 
This is part of why I highlighted in our discussion with @Mithrandirxx that it's ideal to get things that are from other settings (like Saiyans) and work them into things that fit within the setting. How we do it is in the air (Saiyans could be based on some sort of inner spirit school of magic that bolsters one's fighting ability), but we can likely find ways and tools to prevent any copyright issue things from becoming part of the canon setting. Non-canon things don't really get wikified on SARP, so I imagine that'd be how we solve the issue of keeping law-breaking issues off the wiki.
The key would be to simply make equivalents in capability without it being equivalents in backstory and concept. Much like going into an MMO intending to make a character from a franchise and choosing the class that best matches the character's style.
 
between people who would rather stick to Roleplaying whatever comes to mind and those who prefer to tell a long term story and develop a world
I think what you are describing, also, are two different types of plots. We can have multiple plots here that are all under the same umbrella without disturbing one another too much.

Or are you a bit worried that the more freeform former example you gave will interfere with the latter's abilities to tell that overarching story?
 
My worries is that something very freeform with limitations could potentially cause issues with a story and the world. Take for example two powerful characters are in a fight and blow up a nearby castle, but that castle is the castle others in an RP are exploring or meeting within or whatever it may be - especially when a GM has something planned.

I guess I could just be looking at this too hard from an action>consequence>canon perspective
 
Well usually we do have GM/FM boards for skirting that issue, so the planned RP can say, "We're going to the castle... Don't blow up this castle, friendos."

But, you're right; not everyone a) will read that b) will want to have their RP limited and c) other reasons.

I also don't like the idea of saying, "If you want to play how you or others used to play on this site, your RP is not canon."
 
But to be fair, was there much of a canon in the first place if the only current canon is relatively loose? I hate to come across as rude, but that's really all I can say as a rebuttal to that sort of matter. Nothing wrong with being noncanon, it's just a matter of having things set in stone for others to work off of.
 
Well usually we do have GM/FM boards for skirting that issue, so the planned RP can say, "We're going to the castle... Don't blow up this castle, friendos."

But, you're right; not everyone a) will read that b) will want to have their RP limited and c) other reasons.

I also don't like the idea of saying, "If you want to play how you or others used to play on this site, your RP is not canon."
But to be fair, was there much of a canon in the first place if the only current canon is relatively loose? I hate to come across as rude, but that's really all I can say as a rebuttal to that sort of matter. Nothing wrong with being noncanon, it's just a matter of having things set in stone for others to work off of.
I understand both of these points. It's also why I said it was way too early to figure out what would constitute canon and why I pointed to the SARP manner of handling it. Just because something is non-canon or in Open RP doesn't mean it can't become it. This is really a discussion that can't be properly had or even really thought too much on with the status of the setting being literally comprised of 80% dead links and little solidified locale.

We need the base setting done before we can worry on canon and the like. We also need more players, GM/FM/normal player doesn't matter. Ayenee can't exactly do much if there's only one pushing direction to expand the setting, so there wouldn't even be a need for other boards until then beyond what we have now (which has currently held the site over).
 
Is your suggestion to have a subforum for non-canon, Trains? If so, that might be a good place for people to get their sea legs here without feeling like they're infringing on others. Then, if it is deemed appropriate by its creators and staff, it can go onto the main boards, would be a possibility. Something to chew on, like you said.
 
We also need more players, GM/FM/normal player doesn't matter. Ayenee can't exactly do much if there's only one pushing direction to expand the setting, so there wouldn't even be a need for other boards until then beyond what we have now (which has currently held the site over).

I do think it is rather early, but I feel like we should have at least something set to inform players that there will be changes that will create a base story for people to work off of, and provide limits to ensure that the roleplay is - for lack of a better word - playable at a continuous level. Informing them offers a chance for them to assist in the development early on.


Is your suggestion to have a subforum for non-canon, Trains? If so, that might be a good place for people to get their sea legs here without feeling like they're infringing on others. Then, if it is deemed appropriate by its creators and staff, it can go onto the main boards, would be a possibility. Something to chew on, like you said.

Essentially. Have a subforum, but not force the main forum to be the canon RP. If we take over and devote all noncanon to a branch without doing the same to the canon, we may drive what few players we have left away by making them feel unwelcome if they just want to RP regardless of canon.
 
~Calmly enters the thread and reads over it slowly and deliberately~ I may have to re-think my sidekick naming. Alright the core issue that would be faced when it comes to cannon as a general rule is that cannon does not exist in Ayenee as a matter of course. This is due to the fact that not all Ayenee players were ever members of this forum or Ayenee.com, which was our main competitor as a forum base for role-players, from Yahoo's Arts & Entertainment section. This makes cannon difficult to put into perspective in the first place. Secondarily many of those members here sleeping or just having moved on with life had significantly different interactions than each other, and their story-lines might have significant bearing upon anything that could be considered cannon. Thirdly we run into the issue that plots or more accurately denoting X is cannon but the character you have been playing with for the last two decades doesn't matter might irk a few people. Splitting Ayenee into cannonized and non-cannon gives full control of cannon to someone who has either a limited perspective of Ayenee or no perspective. I say this with all due respect to anyone given the "waiver of passing judgment" upon what would be cannon but there is no way anyone person or even a collective of one hundred people would have a complete perspective and understanding of the story lines or character plots that were or are part of Ayenee. As for the problem you are referencing of "What if two super powered arsehats decided their grand fight should enter this or that castle that is involved in a grand storyline". As far as that does happen and happened a lot earlier last year thanks to someone I had to ban for unrelated issues the impact is determined by those who are in said castle. That is to say if there are 6 people in the castle and player X and player Y knock the castle over on them, the members of the plot-line make a choice, play through the terror of having a castle shattering around you, or ignore them for being disruptive to the storyline. Also known colloquially as the "Iggy button". Now the simple truth of the matter however is that splitting Ayenee into 8 pieces will only cause a lot more headaches than anyone wants to deal with. Yes I said 8. This would be the splitting of Modern, Fantasy, Sci-fi and General Free-form into two sections each one Cannon and on Non-Cannon. That is without sorting out different tech levels and species that are applicable from the non-cannon from the pre-mentioned 4 main headers and creating their own so as to have a workable time line to some degree.
 
Another random SARPer here; Mostly weighing in because I can totally see the perspective of people who already used Ayanee. It's bound to get ugly, if new people expect to just barge in an impose their own cannon. This place has a history of it's own, even if it's partially about out of character connections...

So why not just impose some kind of 'cannon tag' system on the wiki, where active plots can opt into connections with other specific plots, but aren't effected by ones that aren't tagged? This is the quickest and easiest solution in my eyes, since settings are built on teamwork and common interests after all.

If somebody needs some kind of meta-explanation for why two plots might not share a third plot as cannon between them, then the dark souls approach always works; Magic, space and time have mysterious relations. Nobody really knows what order these groups actually met in, because time does not necessarily work in a straight line between these disconnected planes.

There is plenty of room for us all to have our cake and eat it.
 
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I could totally see a simply forum tag for non-canon and canon working really well, Primitive. Thanks for coming in and shining some light on the situation.

@Wes @Mithrandirxx is this a change we should make?
 
Just from reading around and trying to absorb as much history as possible, it seems like what Polygon described is basically how things already work. Which is to say roleplayers seem to be free to inter-associate their stories or keep them separate to the extent that they choose.

That's cool.
 
I agree with the male in a catgirl's body. I do like the idea of a central story (the Campaign idea), but I think basically how it works/how the open RP board worked basically solved a lot of problems for SARP and Ayenee. Until we get more GMs and players around, I don't think we really need to overcomplicate things/worry about issues that arise from something too simple.
 
It's true that overcomplication is bad at this point. But really it would just take a quick tag to say "Oh, this is cannon to Kaiyo!" or "Oh, this uses these damage rules...", or whatever.

I'm just worried about people going into some kind of arms race mentality, with anti-magic missiles and all that. That's just asking for a whole technology approval process, which I don't think anybody really likes managing...

Yeah. Best just to manage things like old pen and paper campaigns. "This is my cannon and this is how it works. Sometimes I cross over with x and x cannons for fun. Sometimes my players give me cool ideas and I do that instead."
 
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